Monday, January 11, 2016
What Makes a Classical Hero?
Based on the chapters of the Iliad we have read thus far, and based on the personalities and actions of the characters that we know are considered the heroes of this epic, what do you think are the valued attributes of a classical epic hero? Please be specific in your answer by explaining which character or characters you are considering and which qualities they have are presented as or received as epic.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I have seen several characters step forward so far in the Iliad as epic heroes. All embody both the ability to fight nobly, and hold riches or a position of leadership.
ReplyDeletePatroclus is a pretty great guy. Throughout the beginning of the book, he plays the role of advisor to Achilles. He is wiser and older, and provides support to Achilles as both a mentor and a friend. He then goes on to “pin the Trojans up against the warships,” (468) killing them left and right by flinging rocks in between the enemy’s eyes, (491) ramming spears in between their teeth, (481) and and by dragging them out onto rock ledges. (484) Maybe this is just me after reading Patroclus’ epic fight scence, but is there any way he can’t be a hero with that great background, and his success, and ultimately, his sacrifice in battle.
Diomedes, the King of Argos, is also a heroic figure throughout the Iliad. He was born into royality, and possess all the great characteristics of a fighter. He has showcased his skill on the battlefield particularly in Book 5, as he is shot and wounded by a Trojan, but continues in battle anyway. In fact, after wrenching the arrow from his shoulder, “He killed Astynous, the Hypiron, a frontline captain…and he left them there, dead, and made a rush at Abas abd Polyidus…” (160-165) Go Diomedes!
And so, as Diomedes and Patriclus have portrayed this notion of the epic hero, they have also possessed the ability to lead, and the will to fight nobly.
From what we have read so far in the Iliad I think that multiple characters fit the classical epic hero role mostly because they are brave and fight for a greater good. Some of the clear epic heroes for me are Diomedes, and Nestor.
ReplyDeleteWe have talked in class about how Diomedes really is a kick-ass fighter and should have been the main focus of the story. I think that we were attracted to him in that way because he was portrayed as a more likable character and more hero-like than Achilles. In book 5, when Diomedes fights the Gods, we clearly see that he is a very brave solider and that he has the will to win this war. Unlike many of the other foot soldiers Diomedes fights with passion: “So all on his own Diomedes charged the front” (Book 8, line 116).
Although we have not see much of Nestor so far in the Iliad I think that it is safe to say that he clearly seems to be a great leader and hero of the Achean side. He is known to be the wise old man. I mean he tried to intervene in Agamemnon’s and Achilles’ fight: “Stop. Please” (Book 1, line 303). But despite his age, we can still see him on the forefront: “Nestor grasped the glistening reins in both fists, lashed the team and they charged straight at Hector” (Book 8, 134-135).
Both of these characters show their strength through their fighting abilities but they are also fighting for their country. Even if they feel that they should not be involved in the war, they do it anyways out of pride for their people, which is more than we can say for Achilles.
I agree with Katie on that most of the hero-like characters have some sort of rank but I do think that it is the nature of the story. It would not be interesting if it were some random low-ranked person as a hero. In that sense the classical epic hero is similar to a classical tragic hero. A hero with a higher standing and more to lose is more interesting than someone who started from the bottom (now we here). (That pun thing was intended).
I think that Homer is trying to make Achilles be the main hero of the Iliad. He is our example of an epic hero. I think that Achilles is the epic hero because of some of his characteristics. His favorable characteristics are that he is a strong and fierce warrior. From the beginning of the book, it is clear that Achilles is the best fighter in the Achaean army and that no Trojan can truly stand against him. Achilles is a necessary piece of the Achaean army (even though the Trojans are mostly winning due to Zeus support, Achilles is acclaimed as a man who could possibly face-off against the gods and win). Later on in the book, Nestor even refers to Achilles as, “… a great man even the gods themselves esteem…” (Pg. 255: Line 131). Achilles does show (in the case of this epic) less desirable characteristics such as being full of rage, revenge-filled, and prideful. If Achilles is angered, he will clearly hold a long grudge against those who wronged him. This is clearly seen since his argument with Agamemnon at the beginning of the book led to him praying to his mother for the defeat of the entire Achaean army. His anger against one man caused him to desire a revenge that would affect the entire army that he was previously fighting for. When Agamemnon sends the embassy to Achilles, Achilles decides to turn them all away even with the gifts that Agamemnon offers. Even if Achilles does not desire the gifts, he clearly does not care about Agamemnon’s desperation for the survival of himself and his army. Ajax says, “Achilles, put some human kindness in your heart. Show respect for your own house” (Pg. 273). Achilles rages on and there is seemingly no opportunity to end the rage. I believe that Homer is telling us that a true “epic hero” needs all of these characteristics. An epic hero needs to be fierce and strong in battle; an epic hero needs to have no compassion, but only fury in order to destroy his enemies without hesitation. The interesting thing is that what I listed as less desirable characteristics are important for an epic hero, but sadly Achilles is using the characteristics against the side that he is supposed to be fighting for (making them less desirable in this specific case).
ReplyDeleteI personally do agree with Katie that characters such as Diomedes and Patroclus are more heroic figures in the story than Achilles from a modern standpoint. I do have to disagree in terms of the fact that they are the epic heroes that the ancient Greeks would have enjoyed hearing about. These characters show all of the positive characteristics of heroes in modern media that we see such as movies or television shows. I do think that the Greeks looked to Achilles more as the hero since he is more of a fiercer character that portrays the favored characteristics of a soldier during the ancient Greek time period.
Achilles is considered a classical hero. A favorable characteristic of his is that he is a powerful fighter, the strongest of them all. We have known this since the beginning of the book. No Trojan can stand against Achilles, making him important for the Achaeans. Furthermore, Achilles is even said to be able to match up with gods, as claimed by Nestor: “a great man the god themselves esteem.” (pg 255, line 131) His being being important to his people, and compared to a god are clear evidence that Homer, and others view him as a classical hero.
ReplyDeleteDiomedes also possesses the traits of being a great warrior, which also makes him a classical hero. He is very brave on the battlefields, for even after being badly injured on the battlefield, as presented in book five, he still continues to fight. He is also brave enough to fight gods. His bravery is praised by Aphrodite: “True son of Tydeus, Diomedes, joy of my heart! Forget the others - nothing to fear, my friend, neither Ares nor any other god. (pg 191, lines 53-55)” From Diomedes’ being compared to gods, and being said not having to fear any gods, we can see that he is view as a hero, as great as a god.
As we can see from above, one attribute of a classical hero is being a skilled and brave warrior.
Although I think many of the characters in Iliad are competitive examples of an epic hero, but just like Jordan, I think Achilles is the embodiment of the characteristics of an epic hero. A common characteristic in most of the characters is that they are ‘great’ people and warriors. Characters such as Achilles, Diomedes, Patroclus and Hector that have significant parts in the poem all have in common that they are strong and adept in battles. Diomedes in particular is described as “lion leaping into the fold” (book 5, line 153). Patroclus also has a mentor-like characteristic, which is shown when he convinced Achilles to join the battle to save the Acheans using words. He also, like Diomedes, is shown to be a dope fighter in the entirety of book 16. Many characters are great, and therefore greatness is not the only characteristic of an epic hero.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is the details in which Homer puts into Achilles that makes him a more interesting, a more hero-worthy character. Achilles is still a great fighter, greater than any of the other warriors, and yet there are more to Achilles’ personality. Achilles has personality flaws that are emphasized more than his battle skills. He is stubborn, and has trouble controlling his anger. The entirety of book 1 shows how Achilles is willing to risk the war for his pride. Also in book 16, which is some time after the incident, he says to Patroclus: “Still, by god, I said I would not relax my anger, not till the cried and carnage reached my own ships” (book 16, line 71-72), which indicates his stubborn nature.
I think the fact that Homer maintains Achilles as the hero of the epic is surprising. We’re more than halfway through the epic and Achilles hasn’t done much other than say he’s not going to fight. As a number of other people have stated, there seem to be much more obvious contenders for the hero of the epic – notably Diomedes and Patroclus.
ReplyDeleteDiomedes seems like the ultimate badass. Like Katie mentioned, he’s royalty and he’s a fantastic fighter. He doesn’t care when he sees Apollo on the battlefield: “Diomedes, loosing his war cry, charged Aeneas –though what he saw was lord Apollo himself, guarding, spreading his arms above the fighter, but even before the mighty god he would not flinch” (Book 5, 496-499). He takes on Ares and Aphrodite too – the man fights gods for a hobby.
Patroclus distinguishes himself too. After getting his classic fighting montage where he drops people in some badass way or another, Patroclus “then in a blur of kills, Amphoterus, Erymas, Epaltes, Tlepolemus son of Damastor, and Echius and Pyris, Ipheus and Euippus and Polumelus the son of Argeas – he croded corpose on corpose on the earth that rears us all” (Book 16, 495-498). In some meta way, Homer basically says that Patroclus is so amazing that even the epic doesn’t even have time to explicate on just how awesome he is.
And yet, neither of these men are the hero of the Iliad. Not them, nor Nestor, Hector – not even Agamemnon. Homer repeatedly says that role is for Achilles. Even the characters notice what’s wrong the picture – when fighting Patroclus, Hector says, “Not for all his power could Achilles save you now – and how he must have filled your ears wit orders as you went marching out and the hero stayed behind” (Book 16, 978-979). So when he’s not really done anything to validate himself for the majority of the poem, what does Achilles have that makes him a classical epic hero? Even though he has yet to prove it, Achilles is great. He’s supposed to be a better fighter than both Diomedes and Patroclus, and he’s possibly from a wealthier nation. But most of all, in spite of all his positive attributes, he also has an epic flaw. His rage, supposedly unending, makes him awesome in the archaic sense of the word. He’s a force to be reckoned with, but he’s also deeply flawed. As his strengths are great, so too are his flaws. I think that’s the attribute that separate him from Patroclus and Diomedes – they seem to be too perfect, and perhaps because of that, uninteresting. The classical hero must be better and worse than the average man could hope to be.